Name: Built Environment Question Time
Uploaded: 2026-03-14T07:26:07.732Z
Duration: 1 h 8 s
Description: Built Environment Question Time

Transcript for "Built Environment Question Time": Hello, and thank you for joining this Deltek webinar today, built environment question time. Before we begin, there are a few housekeeping notes to be aware of. For the best webinar experience, please use Google Chrome or Firefox. Audio will be streamed through your computer. There is no dial in. Make sure your volume is up. You can download the presentation slides and additional resources in the resources widget. All widgets can be resized to fit your computer screen. You will receive the recording of today's webinar via email within twenty four hours. For any questions to the panel, please submit those in the Q and A widget at any point during the webinar. You can also use the Q and A widget if you experience any technical issues. And now it's time to hand over to the webinar's moderator, Anthony Oliver. Anthony, over to you. Thank you very much, Steve, and hello everyone. My name is Steve Sedis, Anthony Oliver. I'm a journalist and host of the Infrastructure podcast, and I will be leading us through today's discussion. Lots to get through. In terms of the agenda, we'll start off with an introduction to Deltek, our host this morning, and then I'll introduce our expert panel who are briefed and ready to answer a number of questions covering three main areas around projects, the workplace and technology. And thanks to all of you who submitted these questions. I mean, to the constraints of time, we're not going to be able to cover all of them, but if we have time at the end, I'll try and ask the panel some quick fire questions to try to get some more questions, more of your questions answered. Feel free, of course, to keep submitting questions and comments throughout the session during in the Q and A box. But before we begin, let me introduce Neil Davison, Deltek's Group Vice President of Sales, who'll give you a quick introduction to Deltek and what they've got planned for 2026. So over to you, Neil. Thank you very much, Anthony. So look, before we dive into the great discussion today, let me share why this conversation matters. In project based industries like architecture and engineering precision isn't optional, it's an imperative. Margins are tight, expectations are rising and every project is a promise that you have to keep. At Deltek, we've reimagined what it means to support that reality. The real AI revolution is not about headlines, it's about embedding intelligence into the systems that run your work. And that's what we've done. We've moved from systems of record to systems of reason and intelligence. So our platform is purpose built for this industry, connecting people, projects and performance with speed, clarity and control. From winning work to analyzing outcomes, governance and insight can't be add ons, they have to be built in. And Deltic are really all about ensuring that our clients lead in a world where complexity is the norm and confidence is the differentiator. And that's why more than 30,000 organizations trust Deltek, where the stakes are high and project execution really matters. I'm super excited for today's discussion and with that, back to you Anthony. Thank you very much Neil. As you say, on to the question time. We've got four excellent and hugely knowledgeable panellists this morning ready to tackle some of the biggest challenges facing the boat environment today. Because like so many governments around the world, The UK has got a mission for growth, which is largely underpinned by investment in new homes, new towns, public transport, and a decarbonized energy system. The question remains how must professionals and professional firms in the board environment prepare and adapt to meet the challenges and take advantage of the opportunities. A number of questions were submitted in advance by delegates this morning, so let's get stuck in. But first, let me introduce our panel today. First, have Henrik Garver, Managing Director of FRI, the Danish Association of Consulting Engineers, a non profit organization that provides political advocacy, member services, and visible branding in the Danish consultancy and engineering industry. So lots of global experience from Henrik. Welcome. We've also got Alison Watson, immediate past president of the Chartered Institute of Civil Engineering Surveyors and a land surveyor by background. But as founder of Class of Your Own, social enterprise, Alison has morphed in her career over the last two decades into the leading light in the mission to tackle the ongoing skills crisis in the built environment, inspiring and empowering the next generation of professionals by creating positive and relevant STEM learning experiences at schools all around the world. Welcome, Alison. Then we've got David Porter. David is the current president of the institution of civil engineers, and in his day job is the director of engineering for North Ireland's infrastructure. He's the guardian of the province's road and transport net network, And he's got a mission during his presidency at the ICE to underline the vital importance of communicating the power of infrastructure investment to nontechnical audiences. Welcome, David. And finally, we've got Chris Will Williamson, a renowned world renowned architect, founder of Western Williamson and Partners, and the current president of the Royal Institute of British Architects, REBA. Chris has spent a career designing and constructing award winning projects transportation infrastructure, including stations on the Jubilee 9 extension, at London Bridge, Elizabeth Line stations at Pannington and Woolwich, and, stations on the Melbourne Metro Tunnel. As REBA president, he has a bold vision to reshape the profession and be more accessible, more influential, and of course, impactful. So welcome to all of my panelists today. On to the questions. Just for full transparency, we're going to cover three topics this morning. The questions are something of an amalgamation of many that were submitted. Of course, as I said earlier, if you've got a comment along the way, use the Q and A button to let us know what you want to say. And depending on time, I'll try and dip in. But let's get stuck into the first question. We're going to look at the subject of project and business management. Question number one, projects don't go wrong, they start wrong. How do panelists see technology being used more effectively to plan projects from day one to enable the desired social, economic and environmental outcomes to be achieved. Let's start with you, David. David, what do you think about that? Thank you. I'm sorry, my camera seems I've gone off, aren't they? So I might practice five stuff at least second. Technology. Not myself, David. You've got a face for radio. Yeah. Thank you very much for that, Flattery. Yeah. So so, project, you're absolutely right. We have we have some shining examples of projects which have been very, very successful, but we've also got some recent examples where we haven't covered ourselves in glory, and so we need to learn from those. And in particular, I think the success of a project starts by having an informed client. An informed client is someone who really understands the constraints that we work in, but also the the vision of where they want to take that. And in order to understand that current constraint and to to communicate where they want to take a project and and the destination for that, Technology is a hugely important part of that, that they can use that in order to communicate that message to the stakeholders, to the wider project team so that people are actually really bought into the project right from the very start. Right, yeah. Yeah. Well, Chris, I mean, what's your take on this? How would you say that maybe technology or cultural shifts might really underpin political confidence in our ability to deliver on time and to budget? But also, I think it's really passionate, you're very passionate about, is giving those benefits, to communities that are desired. Yeah, thank you. Well, when I started my own practice, I was very conscious of the need for project management skills, and it's not something that architects have an awful lot of experience in at university. And I've been to a couple of Deltek's presentations. So they they have they have the systems that make you look at how that is implemented. So every project is different, and I think that's why some projects fail because we're a lot of the challenges we have on projects are things that we haven't experienced before. But I think if you approach things in a logical way and have a system of doing them I mean, architects think of themselves as being very creative, and we, as our engineers and the whole of the building construction industry, and everybody gets annoyed in my office when I say we we know we we should be more like McDonald's, having a system. But the the reason why and they say, well, we're not McDonald's. We're creative. But McDonald's have a great system. They know when to turn on the machines, when how how long everything lasts for. It's it's a it's a system that you can franchise. And I think there's a lot of things that we can do to improve. Every product is is different, but there are things we can do to make sure that we do them better. Right. So make making sure that you're using that technology or using that creativity for the right purposes and not, I suppose, the ones that we don't need to. Alison, do you think professional institutions are doing enough to promote the exchange of best practice and to really try to underline these challenges? No, frankly. I think together we could be. I know I was advocating when I was president for, you know, certainly to join together and to join forces. Think we tend to sit in silos. We all have our own initiatives and some great initiatives to move forward in everything from project based learning to AI policy and so on. But I think over years we've just seen this demise of collaboration. We like to think we collaborate, but actually in the real world, I don't, I think we could do so much better together. And I think that never, more so than now when we need to be educating differently. I mean, when you think about project management and project based learning in school, the whole ability to test ideas and analyse and look to our members to support that throughput of technology talent. I just see that it's not at the forefront and it should be. I think Chris's mantra at the moment with life long learning is a good one to look at and I think as I say, we all bring different strengths, but until we collaborate better on those early education, opportunities, I don't think we do very well at all. Which of course is what technology is supposed to make much easier, Alison, this collaboration. You're having the technology there to talk as we're doing from all around the world, together. Are you saying we're not just we're just not taking advantage? I think we're taking advantage of each other. I think when it comes to, our own, individual policies, you know, we we all have those stacked up. I mean, you know, I can talk from my own institution. We're really sort of, you know, I think internally we're driving ahead. We're doing some work with some great changes. We're really progressive, but I'd like to see everyone aligned on that. You know, I think the times of working in silos is is is, you know, is long gone. Henry, what's your view on this? What are the lessons, Henry, do you think that we should be learning from the myriad of projects that go wrong around The UK, around Europe and the rest of the world? Well, I think Alison definitely has a point about better collaboration for a start, but I think one of the key things is really the quote you have that projects don't go wrong, they start wrong and I'm sorry to say that I think it's particularly the public clients who have the wrong priorities or the wrong set of conditions for making the right decisions. When we look at projects with private clients, they normally know what are the desired outcome, how do we get from A to B, then they start the design process and everything. Somewhat reasonable public clients, not all of them, but some of the projects, big share of the projects unfortunately, really start wrong and I think the point is that if you have a project that goes right, everything is good, you don't actually realize the cost you avoided by making the right planning, which means that in the public eye you don't need that planning phase, because what was the point, we just started and got it all done with, so next time you don't do the planning phase, whereas I think the learning should be that the more planning you do in the initial phases, the better project you get. So I think that goes down to procurement it actually also goes into the technology because now we can do more design early on. Everybody agrees that if you do the right design in the digital world, it's a lot cheaper than making the wrong product in the end, I really think it comes down to how the public sector makes decisions on large scale infrastructure and buildings. Chris, you've done a lot of work for public and private clients. Do see this differentiation between the approach of private clients compared to public clients? No, not really. I have a very simple view of life, and I think if you know what you're going to do and you do all the drawings, you do get all the information, you get the package together, and you don't change your mind, then and you go out to tender, you you, you do get a good project. The problem is we go out to tender too early. We don't the project isn't fully developed, and the client changes their mind. It doesn't, I I think, whether you're doing cross rail or whether you're doing a kitchen extension, the problems are, in my experience, exactly the same. So I I don't think there's much difference. Well, David, as somebody who is that client making those decisions over in Northern Ireland in your day job, I mean, said at the top about the fact that, you know, the clients have really got to lead and make sure that they are driving the projects in the right direction. Can technology help? Absolutely. Technology is part of the solution to help us then in those planned stages. But the let's see that informed client, you know, what what the other, people have said just around that planning, having that vision, not setting out that purpose, that's hugely important. And and in order to be able to do that, you need an informed client. Now that's not a pitch that every single person in the process needs to be a construction professional, but construction professionals need to be in that process of helping the decision makers take the right choices and and take informed choices knowing those constraints, and technology can play a huge part of that even in the very early stages of those projects to understand the trade offs, to understand actually the consequences of some of the decisions that that that are taken, and by taking well informed decisions right from the start of a project, it won't guarantee success. There will be outside factors, but it definitely will, increase the likelihood of having a successful project. Henry, one of the other key things that we are trying to ensure, certainly in The UK, but around the world, is making sure that the boat environment sector has got a sustainable supply chain right the way down from the biggest designers, the big contractors, all the way down the supply chain. I mean, are you seeing from your experience in Denmark technology helping businesses to run or companies to run their businesses better? Definitely, yes, I would say that is fortunately what we see and both in terms of actual resource management within the consulting engineering firms, but also as you said through the supply chain, the fact that can test some of your digital design with the contractors, they can build their point or make their point into the model before you actually start and the digital tools are making that a lot easier. Then of course you have the risk and liability, what can you change, what can you not and so on, but I think we see agreements and contract formats and so on being built around the technology in a way where we can utilise technology to make better projects, but also get the right people and skills on board at the right stage. Definitely a yes. I think parts of Europe are moving faster than others. I would actually look at The Nordics, The UK, some of the areas where we are, The US of course, where we're going maybe faster than other parts of Europe, but it's definitely on the right trajectory. Mean, Alison, you work a lot with students and school kids who of course they think nothing of technology is part and parcel of what they do every day of their life. Are we making it hard for those people coming into the industry to feel accepted in our industry because we're not embracing technology quickly enough? It's great question, Anthony. I think there's still a massive misinterpretation, miscommunication, all those things. It's just missed in schools that know, the built environment is this technology place. I mean, there's, there's quite a few schools who, you know, with those really, really sort of dynamic teachers who see the stem of the built environment, the science technology engineering must. But frankly, I'm tired of the conversation of trying to raise the profile of the built environment to the center of technology. I think we have to be mindful here that, yeah, kids, that whole phrase around kids, children are digital natives and they can step into the built environment with all these amazing skills. But it's interesting, early this week I've been having conversations, you know, whatever we were on, we're on Tuesday here and even yesterday I was having probably three or four conversations with large contractors who are struggling to recruit. And also even when they do recruit, these, you know, guys are coming in and, know, with I can use geospatial tech and you can use digital tech, BIM tech, you know, analytical tech, but they can't email, they can't answer an email, they can't make a telephone call, they can't attend meetings, they keep their cameras turned off in the meetings, they're great at presenting the rehearsal, but take them off the stage and they kind of like shrink into well, the quintessential shrinking violet. So so I think tech could actually be, I'm I'm a big fan of start with the team early that that that if we can get children and young people to feel part of who we are from a much younger age. I mean, you know, that sort of, socio economic environmental impact that we can have. You know, do align with digital, but they also align with the environment. I keep going to schools where they have no consciousness of built environment careers, technology careers, and I go, but how can you possibly save the planet if you're not looking at the built environment for your futures? Sadly, construction remains at the bottom of the pile. I think technology can enhance that vision, it can enhance that pathway, it can, you know, we can do a big marketing campaign on, you know, how technologies transform the world, but I think we need to remember that these kids are still human beings. We need to focus on the human element. Yeah. Well, the question mentions, you know, how do we enable the desired social, economic and environmental outcomes to be achieved? Do you think the built environment profession is really grasping that challenge sufficiently at the moment? It's a difficult market. There's lots and lots of challenges, but getting those right economic and environmental outcomes and social outcomes, that has to be something which remains top of mind, does it not? Certainly, but building on what Alison was saying, I think certainly in architecture, and I suspect in other disciplines as well, engineering and surveying. So surveying is really interesting because they do stress their specialisms. So there's 14 or 15 different kinds of surveyors, but we only have one kind of architect. And I think what Alison was talking about was I think we can we can achieve such a lot with teamwork. I mean, in a football team, you don't have 10 center forwards on a pitch or 11 goalkeepers. You need specialisms. And I think in in the construction industry, we tend to want our surveyors now oh, well, certainly our engineers, our architects to be able to do everything. And I think there's a lot we can learn from the advertising industry where you have a creative team and you have an accounts team that looks after the project, looks after make sure everything's done on time and allows the creative team to be creative and or or the technical team. And I I think because it is a different side of the brain. And I think as far in my career, it's been about developing teams rather than trying to get individuals to be able to do everything. And I and that's that's something I'm passionate about is allowing people to develop specialisms and to to really it doesn't mean to say you have to do the same thing for the whole of your career, but if you wanted to specialize in sustainability or AI for five years or then move into management or whatever, to be able to curate your own career throughout your lifetime is really important. Because I think, you know, we we all are really we want to progress, and we want to do different kinds of project based work. But I think having a specialism is really important to achieve our value and our influence. That's what I think about. David, that a similar sentiment from the engineering side? Because I know that there has been an issue around engineering, but as you get more senior, you get further away from the creative side of the industry and more into management. How do you maintain your career as a technical specialist? Yeah, you're right. Even in my own career, the further I've moved up the management chain, the last time you spend, doing the real engineering. Actually, as an engineer, there's nothing I relish more than somebody coming in and saying, with this tricky problem, I'm gonna need you for an afternoon just to be an engineer as opposed to being the leader or the director of the organization and really getting into the weeds. And I think that that's important for senior staff to look actually look for those opportunities so that they can actually continue to keep their technical specialisms and actually understand the real day to day issues that our staff are facing. But just actually to build on that point about specialism. So there's three aspects of that that I see is trying to work out. One is to try and broaden our appeal because there's an awful lot of professionals out there or people that are working in our industry that actually don't have a professional home but in engineering, which is why we not only offer the chartered civil engineer route, but we also now have a chartered infrastructure engineer route. And that's on purpose or a very conscious decision to try and give a professional home for more people. And then whenever you have that professional home, you can subdivide that and you can have specialisms. So for example, if you're you're involved with dams and reservoirs or health and safety or now high risk buildings, you can then have a specialism. So, you know, it resonated with what, previous presenter there was talking about just in terms of actually how you can have a general understanding and you can have, particular skills that can be applied to many different projects, but also then you can have some specialisms. Well, this particular line of discussion is a perfect segue to our second question. I'm going to move the slide on, which is really focusing on the subject of creating a workforce fit for the future. The question is how do built environment design and management businesses have to change to ensure that they attract and retain the best talent and skills available in the market? And we've touched on some of those issues already, but I mean, Alison, this seems certainly pretty much in your wheelhouse. What's your thoughts on this question? I think the first thing we need to do is is realize that, you know, our talent pipeline actually starts in school and stops in schools. I mean, when we talk about the whole sort of social impact, I tend to get the first phone call for anybody who's interested in the work that we do with with teachers and children and young people. The first question is, you know, we, well, the first statement is we've got lots of volunteers to go into schools. What can we do? And I think there's this ignorance that actually there's intelligent little people in schools, you know, whether it's a 14 year old, 11 year old, or actually your 16, 17, 18 year old who's started to make some decisions about where they're going to go next. So stop seeing schools as this box ticking exercise of tokenism. If you're going to do spaghetti and marshmallows, do it on a structural grid. Don't do it just for fun. And I think also we need to remember that first impressions last. You know, we always say to young people or when you interview or you come to us, first always make a good first impression. But I think sometimes the impression that we make where we are quite happy to stand in a hall all day with a stand at a Haribo suite and come and look at us and we'll tell you what we do. I mean, genuinely wish that we could, actually stop all career fairs and certainly until we've had more impact in helping children to make decisions. And I think, you know, there's another we touched on it at your fantastic TIP conference just the other week. You know, there's so much investment going into new shiny buildings, new technology for education. There's a complete lack and there has been for twenty years, certainly while I've been in my role, my new role. I'm feeling quite old about it now, but there's been a complete lack of investment in the teachers that will deliver these specialisms, you know. And at the moment, it seems to me that the colleges and universities are pushing project management as, you know, your career choice. We get so many young people at 16 saying I want to be a project manager. And it was wonderful to be in Dubai just last week at a CIRB conference and there's a great guy called Carl Wamsley, who's, you know, an engineer by profession, being around and done some major, major projects. And he said, hone in your talent first, be a great engineer before you become a project manager. I just don't think that comes across very much in schools that there's this great wide world, but we need to, we need to stop just going and doing things to schools instead of working with them. Yeah. Well, you mentioned the the TIP Live conference last week, David Cutter, you were you were running, you were chairing. Mean, David, we heard about the challenge the industry faces of having a demand led, but rather than a or the need for having a demand led rather than a skills led strategy, I. E. The focus is all on training, not about giving people jobs when they come out of training. How do we ensure that these young people, Alison talks about there, do actually have careers ahead of them? We've got a ten year strategy in place in The UK, we've got a pipeline of work. Is that arguably the solution or do we need to do more and fundamentally change the way we address, you know, how do we give people jobs rather than just training in the built environment? Yeah. No, you're right. And we did touch on that, about transforming infrastructure performance conference. What really struck me was that I think we as senior leaders within the industry actually need to recognize that there has been a change in society. So so whenever I think back to whenever I was in school or whenever I was making my choices, I I I studied civil engineering because I wanted to build stuff. And, actually, today's generation and the next generation of engineers and architects and and surveyors, they're much more driven or purpose driven than I ever remember being or or my peers. And so we need to understand that that there has been a shift in in society, and now people are looking for that purpose through their work. And so that environmental social responsibility is much more significant. We need to be able to demonstrate how by being an engineer or by being an architect or by being a surveyor, actually here is how you're contributing to tackling some of the biggest issues we have in society. And where that's most important is on our our our journey to net zero. No. Infrastructure and buildings are are huge contributor to to our emissions problem, but actually engineers and and architects and and surveyors can be part of that solution. And I think that will that will make this profession attractive, the the construction industry attractive for people if they actually understand how they're actually gonna contribute to to tackling some of the biggest issues that we're facing as a society. Yeah. Chris Chris, what what's your view on this? Do you recognize this need for a demand led rather than a skills led, environment? How how how do architecture, architectural firms retain and attract the best skills? I think it's a real problem at the moment. The cost of education is a real problem, and I mean, I we took part in a survey from the London School of Economics a few years ago. They were doing research into the number of nonprofessional backgrounds that architects came from, and they I thought we would in our office, we would be far in excess of the 15% of kids that from nonprofessional backgrounds. But they interviewed everybody in our office, and we were exactly bang on the average, which is pretty disgraceful, to be honest. Well, but you there's no you when you're interviewing somebody, you can't ask them about their background. You can't discriminate. So but I think it's about attracting the people into the industry. There's loads of working class kids, and I was one of them, that are not told about architecture, not not taught about the possibilities. I was encouraged to go to art school and got a course, a a place on Leicester Poly to study graphic design. If I hadn't have picked up a book on architecture and said this is what I want to do and begged them to let me study architecture instead, I I would have been a graphic designer by then. But I think Right. So there there was I I took part in a panel a couple of months ago, and I was the eldest person on it. The youngest person on the panel was 17, and they were asked, how did you get into the property industry? They they they decided on a career in surveying? And she said, TikTok. And everybody was aghast. You know, what what's tick what what did you learn? And she said, well, on TikTok, everybody thinks it's about, you know, funny videos and dancing, but there's actually a lot on there about careers. And I I Yeah. I saw somebody talking about their work in the property industry. We're we're just not getting the message across well enough. Yeah. I think it's an incredibly exciting profession and industry that we're in. We do the most amazing projects. People don't know what we do. They don't know the engineers behind the Elizabeth line or the architects behind the Elizabeth line or the surveyors. And I think get getting that message across and and the variety of work within the professions, we've got to excite people to attract them into the industry. Yeah. Henry, what's happening around the rest of Europe then? How are your members in Denmark attracting and adapting to make sure they are creating workforces that are fit for the future? Well, think there's a number of points actually. Did a survey across Europe. Number one issue is staff shortage, number two is labor costs, those two are almost related, then you have red tape and political uncertainty of shared third position on challenges. But what do we do? I think there is, like Alison said, it all starts in school, so we do need to develop that talent pipeline overall. But when I actually look at the numbers, in part we do need more engineers, we do need more skilled people into our industry, but if we look at the growth of the consultancy and engineering industry compared to other industries, we are actually performing better than a lot of other industries, we are actually managing to grow. I was just looking back at some of the figures and it would have been awful if we only had had the same amount of growth, then we would have had a lot of bigger challenges, but we have managed to attract the talent and I do think some of it comes to the fact that as an industry we are better to deliver that purpose, that purpose driven individuals of the younger generations are actually seeking. If you work in this industry, you do help change the world, you do help change the environment and so on. Although it is a challenge, I actually also think we should recognize that we are probably doing better than a lot of other industries. The second thing is that you do need of course to keep this purpose clear, also need to be true to the purpose that it's not just something you sell to the future workers and then you go do something entirely different when you're actually doing the project. Another thing is to look into mixed teams, to say we don't need everybody to be engineers or architects or surveyors, we can actually mix a team, we might throw in an economist here, sociologist, geologist and so on, to make these mixed teams for better projects and again technology is part of that solution to tie it all together and actually make the right project teams. But then when it comes to talent, I think one of the things that can worry me a bit is actually when we look at, I think it was Alison putting in the forward that everybody wants to be project managers, but when we use more technology, do we get the young talent in who can actually also see is the project right, does gravity work the way gravity works in the model or is there something else that they don't grasp. So getting those basics right through the education system but also using technology I think is crucial. But the fact that we have a purpose, we can use technology, we attract to places of work, think is actually a great strength of our industry. We still need more people, definitely a good position to come from. Alison, I mean, building on that, do you think the use of technology and new methods of design and construction, we talk about building stuff in factories, off-site construction, etc, can that help boost the attractiveness of the sector? I think it can, but again, you know, issue is, is is they're not actually seeing that that is available to them. And also, I think that, you know, we need to we need to talk about resilience because, you know, if you think about our students, you know, they're designing in modern master construction at 14, they're looking at the information in each BIM model, they're making decisions based on those, you know, analyses. But you think about the whole sort of problem solving, systems thinking, that kind of digital confidence, it's all there. But the resilience, I come back to my earlier concern with young people, around, you know, we can get them to do all the tech, can get them to use AI really responsibly, they will challenge the answer, they will go back to the AI and treat it almost like their teacher, they'll, you know, they get a response and they need to be seen to justify them. We did lots of work on justification and not just, you know, taking the answer as read. But I still think the human is missing in all this, you know. I really, really, really worry that some of the children can't even have a conversation. We want to talk to them about modern master construction and how they can transform the world and keep the planet safe. But having that human conversation, that human interaction and, you know, liaising with peers, being part of the project team requires some basic human interaction. I think that the focus has become so much on AI AI, it's going be great, you're to thrive, We're forgetting that there's a human being that sits beneath it. Yeah. Which is a perfect segue to my third question, Alison, which is looking at technology trends. I mean, interestingly, you could say, in webinar like this, we probably would touch on technology in all three subjects. But the question is how do you see data and digital technology and in particular artificial intelligence enhancing and accelerating the work of built environment professionals? Let's start with the international perspective. Henrik, what's your view on this? What are you seeing around Europe and around Denmark in your world at the moment? I think it's a big issue at the moment. It's being incorporated into the design tools and everything, so there are definitely risks, Is it artificial intelligence you're talking about specifically? Yeah, it's artificial intelligence and machine learning and so on and combine that with drone technology and so on, suddenly you can actually make better decisions on all sorts of structures because you can have more knowledge than you did in the past. So I think it's a very powerful tool for the professionals but I also think a lot of companies are still grasping how do we actually go from the hype into having it as a truly useful tool and I think that is probably where we're standing right now. The European survey I was referring to before, we asked about AI and digital technology and it wasn't one of the high concerns, which is interesting, I think that goes back to the fact that labor shortage is just so much bigger. So taking up a lot of conversation, I still need to see that next level of value because I see the examples but I haven't seen it used as something that empowers the industry to create better projects except for one area. I think when it comes to sustainability in buildings and doing some of the calculations and the model variations and so on, I actually hear and see companies using AI and digital tech to do the modeling quicker, to make better decisions faster. David, when we were together last week, talked about AI and the use of technology and there was a spectrum, the gloomers, the doomers, the bloomers, and the zoomers in terms of the ability of folks to embrace the use of new technology. Does the does the food environment sector, as you see it, have the skills and the or maybe the culture also to embrace the the new technologies, perhaps in the way that other sectors such as manufacturing or perhaps even finance are really doing so at the moment? Great question because I I think there are bits of our profession that are probably a bit slower on the uptake of this and that may be a little bit more cautious, but there are other elements of it that are really pushing forward. So I can see some contracting firms who are still largely paper based and particularly on their site records and others which are equipping their team with iPads and digital equipment, in order actually to manage the sites in a completely different way. So I think our profession and the industry is evolving. What we need to do as a professional body is one, don't kid ourselves that we can control AI. AI is happening out there. It's an integral part of all our lives. So to think that we can control that in some way, I I think we're kidding ourselves. What we need to do is actually think about the bits that we can actually control as a professional body. And so for me, that is thinking about our professional code of conduct and the ethical use of AI and making sure that people understand, as we said earlier, not just to take the the output from an AI, but actually to to look at that and then target that and examine that to see actually are we getting the right outputs? Is this actually achieving what we want to? Because AI is just another tool. That's the latest tool that we're using within the industry and we need to not be hesitant about that. We need to embrace it, but recognize its limitations. Yeah. Alison, I see you nodding away there. How do you see it? Yeah, just the same as David, really. I mean, I think it's that, certainly from an alignment in education, if we align education with industry standards, you would hopefully reduce onboarding time on major projects. But I come back to you, I know we talk a lot about young people, but I still think the influence has to come through the teachers and in the teaching communities, there seems to be a lot more focus on preventing cheating, rather than embracing the technology and using it for good. You know, the dynamic teacher who is feels confident and again, you know, but back to, you know, David and yourself with the with the with the infrastructure event last week, you know, the fight that Mark McDonald had a head of data science who was a non cognix. She was just saying to me that I'm not an engineer, I'm not a surveyor, but I have so much to give. And I think teachers should be the same, we can bring teachers into our environment more, help them understand how we're using AI, how we're using technology to better planet and people and so on. And again make teachers feel part of our team because the early intervention that they can have with children, they are our workforce in a heartbeat, you know, the time passes So so I think for me, I love where it's going. My fear is that we're being held by the politics and the fear of, but you know, it's cheating. We can't be. We have to use our brains more. I think it's a fantastic tool. I think we need to be taught to use it correctly. Well, that brings to the point that was made at that conference around shadow AI. People are using it, and I suppose you do want to make sure that when you're using it as a business, when your staff are using it, then you you you have some kind of control. Which brings me, Chris, you spoke recently in an article I read about architects really needing to up their game and embrace, not ignore the power of AI. So so how can professional institutions or even professional businesses help to accelerate the adoption of that vital technology rather than, as you perhaps suggested, ignore it and stick the head in the sand and hope it goes away? Well, so I think 2020, professor Stuart Russell from Berkeley University gave the Reith lecture at the BBC. And at that time, I listened to him, and I thought this is amazing. And I thought, know, this is sort of maybe ten years away. And and so I invited him, a couple of years ago to to do a lecture at the RIBA along with Neil Leach from Miami, who's a visiting professor. And and so Stuart Russell was talking about the possibilities, and Neil Leach was giving the examples of how it's used in architectural imagery at that time. But since then, just in those two years, it's it's just boomed. And there's a fantastic documentary. In fact, Neil Leach sent me the link called The Thinking Game about the deep mind and the the people behind it, and it's just unbelievable. And I I used to watch Tomorrow's World avidly when I was a youngster. And it You're dating yourself now, Chris. You're dating yourself. Yeah. James Burke. And now we're we're actually living it, and it's it's unbelievable. You see things on those programs that never came to fruition, and which are still trying to get Hyperloop going, for example. But but this is actually here and now, and it's learning every day, twenty four hours a day. It's not sleeping, and it's getting better and better and better. And then there's some market that's is to make sure you're using it for the power of good, though. You make sure you're using it to take your industry forward, though, and your businesses forward. Yeah. But it's I think it's like anything else. You have to see the possibilities and not see the not be scared by it. So I think that there's lots of industries that are hoping it will go away, and other people that mean, we have so many architects that at the cutting edge of AI, and they're doing amazing things, not just in design and the imagery of the the buildings, but in the process using you know, helping with sustainability, helping with programming, and with costing of projects. So it it is the possibilities are fantastic to actually use it to benefit our profession. Yeah. Does the Northern Ireland, infrastructure department use it on a regular basis, David? Have you got a strategy there? Most well, we haven't, got a strategy, per se, but we are starting to dabble on it. So everybody has copilot, and we're starting to use those tools within the the North Island Civil Service. But, actually, just what what struck me is a of a quote that, from Stefan Governer from from her podcast, with Robert Preston that that really sticks my mind that, you know, there's a real hesitancy in the about AI because people think that they're gonna lose their job to it. And they have a brilliant quote in that, which is you're not gonna lose your job to AI. What you're gonna lose your job to is somebody who can use AI. And and I think that really points that to what particularly in this technical area, it's the people that recognize it as a tool, embrace that technology. They are the ones that are really going to be in demand construction and engineering and architecture going forward. Okay. We're almost running out of time. I want to get to some quick fire questions. So I know there's been some coming in, so I've got my hands on some here. But before that, can I just flip up a I just want to do a quick poll while we're gathering those together? Let me just flip that one. There you go. The poll basically says, would you like to speak to Deltek about how our platform can bring speed, clarity, and control to every stage of a project life cycle? If you just take any of A or B on there, then that will certainly help the team at Deltek to understand what your needs are there. But while you're doing that, David, quick fire question. Just looking forward to 2026, your future gaze head on, what are the main relevant regulations coming in 2026 to watch out for? I mean, how do you ensure that both design and engineering solutions delivered on-site are maximizing ecological benefits as well as cost benefits? And I mean, one of the things you didn't mention, of course, with the use of AI is it has got a significant environmental impact. But what would you say we need to watch out for in 2026 on that front? Yeah, so a few things that strike me in terms of that. Particularly, there's continued attention to the the likes of the government safety regulations, which were largely triggered by ground floor and a few other things, but that has really been brought into focus and the horrific scenes that we've seen in Hong Kong, and, you know, our thoughts wiped it to all those people that that are involved in that. I'm I'm caught up in that horrific incident out there, so it really brings the the and the focus, the need to continue to to regulate our our industry so that it actually is a safe environment, and we we provide, buildings and structures and infrastructure actually that is safe, for people. And associated with that, government is continuing to look in The UK about how they can get that assurance and whether we actually do need to do something, to the professional institutions or to the way that we actually, regulate our our profession. So, again, I see, I mean, no other professional engineering institutions are are part of that ongoing discussion in terms of what the future, the immediate future might look like in our profession, because we're here, yes, to build structures and to produce nice infrastructure, but actually we're here to serve society. That infrastructure and the service provides is relied on each and every day by citizens, and we need to do that and and keep that right central in our focus that we are doing this for the good of society and for the long term so that people on the planet can thrive, not just so we get individual projects delivered, but actually so we help society develop. Okay. Another quick follow on. Alison, following digital advancements accelerated by accelerated in recent years, what scope is there for, both environment sector to increase remote working for roles that do not require full time site presence? Answer that as a education specialist and a nancer there who likes wandering around in the mud. I do like wandering around the mud. I miss it greatly. Yeah, remote work. I mean, let's say, again, somewhat frustrating. I'm not doom and gloom at all, but, I think we can learn from, you know, we all went remote during Covid. We had to go remote. People didn't stop. We've proved that it could be done. And think again, you know, there's this, I'm just reading some of the questions within the Q and A in terms of upskilling of people. We're doing fantastic new projects on the new hospital programme where we're trying to upskill staff to be prepared for all the MMC net zero approach we're taking on that, which is one of the biggest infrastructure projects this country will ever do in my lifetime. There's a whole middle skill that's missing, you know, and I think if you think about where MMC came from, let's face it, my dad was building an MMC. He's 90 years old now. He was working in Sheffield City Council, building buildings as modern methods back in the day. We didn't call it that, but but he did. I think that remote working comes with upskilling, you know, if we can give people time to learn, time to build the skills using AI or otherwise. But I don't think we give that. And if you think about the graduate programmes at the moment, I'm going to cite Balfour Beatty, you know, they have a great intern programme, but a lot of the young people who are working in these internships say, you know, we want to increase our knowledge, we want to increase our capability, but we have no time. We're not given the time. So I think we need to build that remote working in so, you know, the skills don't come by, you know, asking people to do a nine to five, then go home and learn. They don't have the mental capacity to do that. So let's go back to COVID. It's, or is it never work, never waste, it is good crisis. I think we need One last one, Chris, a very quick one. You Do agree nature based solutions need to become mainstream solutions to ensure nature can survive climate change? I think there's a lot we can learn from nature. And, you know, I think the planet gives us all the clues that we need in order to solve it. It's a huge problem. It's not like sending a man to the moon that can be done by one country alone. It needs cooperation, and therein lies the problem. Okay. Right. Final question. We got four minutes left. I want thirty seconds from each of you. On, my final question, which is what is the one thing you would like to see change in the sector which might radically change the way professionals can transform delivery and make, I suppose, the investment that all governments around the world are trying to do really count and give us those great social outcomes? Henrik, what do you think? The one thing, Education, 30 that would really be the one thing to invest in. There's a lot of our staff about tech and net zero and everything, but we need better education to lift it, so that's the one thing. Alison, you can't use education because Henrik's already done that. No, I'm going to use training. I want to have a new solution for initial teacher training, so that we are training teachers to be the teachers of the modern built environment instead of focusing on, you know, with respect to Michael Gove, ancient Greek. Fantastic. David, what about yourself? What do you think? What is the one thing you want to see change? And of course, being a president of the Institute of Civil Engineers means you've got the power to do it as well. But yeah, I think we need to really focus on communicating the real value of particular infrastructure and the buildings that we construct, not in terms of actually the technicalities, not in terms of the strength of the concrete or the size of the rebar or the structural form, but actually the service that it offers society. And we need to really demonstrate what that purpose is because we do fantastic work and society relies on it each and every day and we need to make sure that we communicate that to people. Yeah. I mean, very interesting point that we again, going back to when we were together last week from Chris Curtis, the MP, who was making the point about the way that his life had changed because of the investment that was made in new towns you know, when when he was younger. And it is kind of making sure that you are you are actually linking that infrastructure investment, that environment investment with people's lives. Yeah, absolutely. And so as engineers and architects and surveyors, we need to be careful that we don't go out to demonstrate how good we are in our own profession, but we actually demonstrate what the body of what we do is to society, to the projects, you know, the the the the that what they're more interested in whenever that we were involved with a transport project is actually the users are going to. That's to go to meet the loved one. That's to get to the airport, to go on holiday. It's to get to actually their work or or to get to the hospital. That's the purpose of it. And actually the technicalities of how we do that for us to do, we need to do it in the safe way. We need to make sure that the structural form actually works, but it's the purpose that will actually tell the project to the wider public. Chris, final word. Collaboration, going back to, Alison mentioned it right at the start. I think we come from a quite a confrontational background in construction industry and the development industry in general, getting more diverse voices in the room at the start of the project, listening to, the community and listening to each other and working together, I think that would go a long way to solving a lot of the procurement problems and getting better outcome.